BigKid.com.au

Ultimately I think there’s going to be a showdown between game makers and the law about the meaning of property.

Not that there’s any justification for violence by this psycho, but the fact that he approached police and they wouldn’t respond is quite telling.

If people invest time and effort into acquiring virtual property, then they will feel wronged if that is taken from them unfairly. Game makers might wish that virtual items have no real-world value, but our sense of justice may eventually force them to having a value that must be legally quantified.

I expect police/government involvement isn’t really needed, but an independently run dispute resolution body may be required to handle property issues. It could even have effective international legal force if all MMOG players are required to accept its authority before entering the game. Almost an “International MMOG Court” that has jurisdiction over all games.

I’d nominate monty for the bench.

Following up on the International Court idea, the Chinese courts have step in before with MMOG disputes.

In late 2003 a Beijing court step in to order the return of character attributes for a player (Li Hongchen), where the attributes had been stolen by a person who hacked the game servers for a game called Red Moon, hosted by Beijing Arctic Ice Technology Development.

In that case, Li asked the host company for the details of the hacker who stole his virtual property, the request was refused, and the police when approached, declined to assist. The court ordered the host company reinstate the stolen attributes.

C’mon. As soon as in-game assets are recognised as property, the ATO will be demanding that you send them 30% of your gold… :)

None of us want that (and none of us in the games industry would like to be held responsible for losses from bugs etc!)

I’m with mcdrewski, recognising virtual assests as “real” property is an extraordinarily bad idea.

People so attached to a game asset should be given counselling not legal advice.

As presiding official of the newly formed International MMOG Court, I take exception to that.

Do you really want the legal ramifications of a line of code hindering game development? As soon as game assets are “real” property the MMO and perhaps even the standard games industry will die a painful death.

You think marketing driving game’s dev is bad, monty, wait until the lawyers are.

I was being whymiscal :)

Each game company should be responsible for thier own services. Any problems arising like this would be an “in house” issue which is then sorted by the provider.

Problem is; Would the provider listen or even care?

But then if this sword of the gods is so great then why loan it out……even to a friend.

As far as I’m concerned this has nothing to do with the developer. Some derranged fool gave his friend an in game item. Said friend then sold that in game item to someone else with more money than sense and just a tad too much attachment to the _GAME_.

The original lunatic then stabbed the friend to death. This is very sad and the lunatic should be locked in a small cell, padded or otherwise, for eternity.

But it has nothing to do with the developer.

Fair point, but are developers never liable for a game screwing up?

To me that sounds like the argument that software developers shouldn’t be liable for problems with their software, which is a convenient excuse that Microsoft has hidden behind for decades.

They should be liable if the software doesn’t do what’s advertised (which they likely already are via existing laws) or actually damages your computer.

The problem then is the massive gray area between a bug and simply not being what it says it is.

But the above discussion is nothing to do with any problem with the software. It’s about an obviously mentally ill man killing his friend.

yeah devs should own ALL assets in the game I think more awareness of the addictiveness of MMO’s needs to be publicly looked at and proccess to help parents and adults themselves handle MMO addiction so you don’t end up in a world where a virtual sword if worth killing for.

Not the DEVS problem its the COMMUNITY’s problem, if you throw the blame on the single dev you are not treating the publci desease of addiction. You don’t see crown casino going to court for someone betting all their money and jumping off the bridge after.

but you do see gamblers annonymous etc etc…

milali, you’ve got a good point there.

I remember reading somewhere that in order to get their operating licences Australian casinos are expected to contribute part of their revenue towards local gambling rehabilitation programs. To me that’s the government basically admitting that they’re allowing in something that will damage society in order to cash in on casino taxes.

Perhaps MMOG developers should be aware of possible social problems surrounding their work. When it helps your business model to get people extremely addicted to something, you have to wonder what incentive these companies have to pull back. I like the idea that WoW rewards those who play less, and it doesn’t appear to have damaged their sales at all.

Gambling is a big issue in Victoria this week, following the government’s scrapping of an independent research body which found some politically unpalatable home truths - the government has brought the research ‘in-house’. 10% of Vic government revenue now comes from pokies apparently and they can’t kick the habit.

The idea of MMOGs being addictive is an interesting point though - generally, games are great games because people love to play them; is it addiction at some level?

I think the issue generally is on a different level compared to addiction to gambling, except in this case the consequences of being so involved in the game has been disastrous.

Practical social programs, together with the International MMOG Court (althought might be difficult to get USA or Australia to sign up), are a good first response.

“C’mon. As soon as in-game assets are recognised as property, the ATO will be demanding that you send them 30% of your gold… :)”

So are we going to have little cyber tax collectors running around in games? If so do we get to frag them?, at least once please…..