EQ Chronicles: Guilds and The Meaning of Life

Guilds. Love them or hate them, they are an unavoidable part of EverQuest. My Bard ran the gamut of them recently, and during the process I learned a lot about human nature, the online environment, and rubbed shoulders with the meaning of life itself. I kid you not: The Meaning Of Life.

The great majority of high end content in EverQuest has been designed around the idea of guilds, and there is no way to experience that content outside of them. The strength of guilds is their grouping of likeminded players under a shared banner in order to achieve common goals. That is the idea, anyway. What cannot be overcome alone, can be gloriously overcome as a coordinated group. But of course, wherever you have a group of people you have politics. The more people, the deeper the intrigue can run. So begins my little fable.

In EQ there are generally two sorts of guilds: family, and pure raiding or “uber” guilds. Family guilds are nice. The people in them play to enjoy themselves, and help each other out. They are bound together by a joy of playing and a sense of decency. Pure raiding guilds are bound together by a desire to play at the top end and, unfortunately more often than not, the love of personal gain and high end gear, or as it is known in EQ vernacular: phat lewt! “Uber” raiding guilds generally are filled with people who have committed obscene amounts of time to online gaming, and expect the same of everyone else they play with. They are there to win, and to beat whatever other guilds are competing with them for the top end encounters. You can be sure that almost without exception, the people populating these guilds have pulled dirty tricks to get there and stay there. It is part of the territory.

My guild was a family guild that kept losing good players who wanted to raid at the top end. I and a few others believed it didn’t have to be that way. We wanted a guild with family values and yet a core of committed players who could tackle the top end together. We could see no reason why we couldn’t have both. So we started agitating for more and higher level raids. There was initial trouble and disagreement, but with lots of talking and lots of listening, we started making headway. Eventually, at a critical point in our journey, a player from one of the Uber guilds who had a character in our guild as well offered to lead our raids. Knowledge is everything in EQ, and this player knew the things necessary to get us to where we wanted to go, so we accepted upon the condition that we adhered to the family ideals. There were some forebodings that it wasn’t such a good idea, but we decided the benefits outweighed the possible detriments.

We made excellent progress immediately. But just as we had worked our way past the necessary intermediary equipping stage, and were ready to take on some truly high end encounters, real trouble started. For some time strange high level characters had been appearing in our guild, invited by the raid leader. While they helped on our raids a great deal, they had been attracted by our increasing power and were adversely affecting the tone of the guild. They were exclusive and selfish, while we were fighting to maintain an inclusive feel for all members at all levels. They were noisy and nasty when provoked. They began disrespecting and then actively alienating other members. The one thing they held in common was a singular interest in the top end of the game, and not our guild. The guild was just their means to an end. They initially paid lip service to our ideals. Then they began resisting them. Finally they declared outright disagreement.

Inevitably, the guild split. We fought long and hard for the ideals we had started with, and those we believed made up the body of the guild. We maintained we could do both; keep a family atmosphere and still raid. But in the end, the raid leader broke away and formed his own raiding guild. Those of us who had begun the journey and fought several bitter battles to save the guild we believed in then watched in disbelief as the majority of the guild went with him. We were gutted. Eight months of hard work and careful planning fell apart in a week.

The one thing we comforted ourselves with was the assurance that the bad behaviour that had torn apart our guild had left with the people who left, and it would inevitably resurface in the new guild to trouble the usurpers. For the most part that was what happened, and many of those who left our guild subsequently left the game because it stopped being fun for them. It was sad, and ironic.

My story would perhaps be meaningless if the same plot had not been played out countless times, and in countless ways. But the online world is filled with a legacy of similar stories, and there is something real worth learning from it all.

I have witnessed the worst kind of behaviour exhibited by unknown people hiding behind the anonymity of the online world. All forms of dishonesty, psychological brutality, and deception are utilized in the interests of making a virtual character more powerful. Surreal stories of sexual favours being exchanged in and out of game for ingame gain are not uncommon. It is heartbreaking to spend many real time hours in an honest attempt to gain a prize only to have it snatched dishonestly at the end, yet it happens all the time.

I have also witnessed touching acts of generosity and selflessness. I’ve seen people spend literal months in the pursuit of a goal, only to concede it graciously to another when it was there for the taking. Others have consistently spent their time and effort helping other players, lacing their play with humour and kindness, when they could have been helping themselves. It is fascinating to me that the same people who recognise how ridiculous it is to put the imagined value of some ingame item over the well-being of a real person on the other side of a computer, are the same people who generally behave decently in real life.

I’ve come to the conclusion that online games are microcosms of wider human psychology. And that’s no surprise really, because games are played by people. Someone once said that if you want to know what a person is really like, watch what they do when they think noone is watching. The same holds true for the online environment where there is apparently no consequence to actions. The irony is that the anonymity is a two edged sword. You cannot be judged by the way you look, because everyone looks as they have chosen to appear. All that people know of you is a how you behave. As a result, all anyone ever knows is who you really are. In the end, the anonymity doesn’t conceal you, it reveals you.

One day Sony is going to pull the plug on EverQuest. No doubt with a certain amount of fanfaire and ceremony, the executive producer of EQ at the time is going to walk sombrely along the line of servers and one by one switch them off. All the fabulous items and riches so earnestly sought and visciously competed for over the years, will be gone. All the intimately known zones that formed the backdrop to countless shared adventures, all the bitter adversaries and guild structures so covetously guarded at the expense of friendships real and imagined, will disappear in the dying pin-prick glow of fading monitor screens. It will all turn back to nothing, which, of course, is all it ever was. It was bits and bytes, pixels and texels. An illusory dance of electrons, none of it real.

What will survive is how people behaved, how they treated others who shared the same virtual space with them. The dirty deeds and the grubby motivations, along with the acts of kindness will be reduced simply and purely to themselves. All that will endure will be the residue of the treatment of others when dealing with things which held no lasting value. Their only use was to reveal the true nature of those who, for a time, held them and thought them important.

Don’t tell me that’s not exactly like real life.

Previous Chronicle

posted by monty · at 2:01 am · filed under EQ Chronicles

 

18 Comments (RSS)

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust… like sands through the hourglass so too are the days of EQ. Now that sombre tale has just reminded me why I play twitch games. Artificial fantasy ecomonies may come and go but frags-per-hour scores never die!! mwahaha-haaa!!

Or was that ‘lie’…

hehe A good read and why I’m still L57 in a small ‘family’ guild. :)

First introduce myself, I am 64 paladin on Terris Thule.

EQ is a social game and inevitably pan out to be like real society in the end. There are people who just interest in loot and will leave your guild if it does not gain the items they want.

To have fun you need to keep things in prospective as Monty said, it is just a game so enjoy it why would anyone play it otherwise.

I am in a "Family" type guild with decent raiding capabilities, we just broke into NToV. It took us about 1 year to build from up from none raiding "Family" type guild to current "Family" raiding type of guilds. We had two major crisis and don’t even know how many players we lost. However the fun of raiding is very different from the daily grind of xp group. I still remember first time we take Vindicator down, the rush of adrenaline to the head is heady to say the least and taste of victory is so sweet.

To achieve more level and gather more shinny tricklet are part of our human nature, even I who only play 2 to 3 times a week had strong urge for some piece of nice equipment from time to time. The difference is now I only admire them, but no longer driven to gather them.

To be in a right guild with right people around you greatly enhances your EQ experience, unfortunatly the reverse is also true.

Quote: "You can be sure that almost without exception, the people populating these guilds have pulled dirty tricks to get there and stay there. It is part of the territory. "

I must say that one can play a game like EQ competitively, wanting to "beat" it, without being dishonorable in the process. You are correct, that there are many jerks in EQ, at all levels. But I know many generous, thoughtful, honorable people who play the High-End game.

My guild started as a "Family Guild" and still has that flavor. There is a desire by many to play the higher-end content of the game, and this should be expected. Some have left us to join hard-core raiding guilds, almost all of them with good will about moving on.

Discussions, sometimes heated, are taking place as to the direction of the guild. Like you, I do not see why a guild cannot have it both ways. Raid on boss_mob_01? Great! Post it, get it together, and do it! Does attendance need to be required? Do people need to be excluded from the guild because they are not sufficently leveled and geared? I say NO!

Klapton

This is good comment on family guilds and such, However…

I have a big problem on the roleplaying aspect of the game. One of my favorite characters is a Dark Elf Rogue. To play the characte believably, not as an extention of myself, but as a Dark elf, there will be no "family" guild. Not because im a bad person personally, but because the character should be.

Now the shame is that most players do not roleplay the class/race. Ive seen greedy paladins and clerics, Ive been saved in good areas as a dark elf by good characters. The distinction in the guild system of like minded players should really be like minded characters.

my 2 cents worth.

As someone who cherished her 3 1/2 year membership in a Family guild but ultimately left it for a more raid oriented guild, I read this story with deep interest.

It absolutely is possible to maintain decency and still reach endgame raiding… I"m now in a guild that does.

We have /guildremoved people summarily for greed, for cheating, for mistreating others in *or* out of our guild. We maintain a sense of grown-up family– many of our jests are "adult" but not gross — we do not allow sexist, racist, or other harassment or insult. We *care* about each other in an ingame and RL sense.

An example: we have quite a number of husband/wife pairs in the guild. One of them has a son with some physical and psychological difficulties; they play EQ together as a family activity. The son became rather unruly ingame, to the point he got angry and /guildremoved himself for the second time. We don’t let ‘em back after 2 times. However, after a couple of months (and the son talking to several officers about his deep desire to play with his family again), we made the honorable "exception" and let him back in. We have *not* readmitted several others whose behavior was unacceptable toward others; this young fellow’s problems are directed at himself. But he’s *family* — our family.

So you can have a raiding guild that has a famiy feel — perhaps somewhat disfunctional but very loving in a lot of ways.

The reason you can have it both ways: because you can have a gathering of people whose real world values are solid but who *also* have the skills and interests to be a raiding guild member/leader. Our pixilated selves are simply costumes inside which we remain and behave as our real selves.

Huh?

David…

I play on TT also in a highend raiding guild. We crashed this weekend very hard. This article resumes most of the points that are so true about high end raiding.

What this article forgets is the drive of the "raid minded individuals’ to kick people that doesnt think like them. In fact, you know that if you remove one person you always remove more than one since this person has friends, and their friends have friends. Soon enuf there is mostly the persons that are the raid leader friends or people that think alike.

But when is the family guild turning into something not so family anymore? When some policies are put in place to back the ‘raid minded individuals’. Mandatory raids are often the 1st step, then raid attendance levels are checked and rechecked. When the drive to close down ‘chat’ channels is evident so that you better focus on raid orders.

This is all wrong. I still believe we can get somewhere without being nazies. I still believe a guild can pull through all this BS and go elemental. I want to believe you can get somewhere by being friendly. I want to believe you raise your head above the crass, and be better in some way.

Now im guildless, my guild broke up this weekend.

Marksos Aurelius Archon 65

Ex-Chain captain of Unbroken Promise

Terris Thule.

If it’s any consolation Marksos, I’m guildless too and happy to be that way (when I play, which isn’t often lately). There comes a point where you have to make a decision between who you are forced to be associated with via a guild tag, and your own conscience. If that means the game effectively stops at a certain level, well, then that’s how it is. You have to question the basic design of a game which rewards (and encourages) bad behaviour, and disadvantages the rest. My answer is not to play (I’ve cancelled my account and am looking forward to WoW).

Imagine how this plays out on my home server Mordred in DAOC, where the players can actually kill each other. Spies, lies, and so on without end….except for death and revenge. EQ seems neat, but I can’t imagine no PVP.

very well said….

i have lead my familly / raid guild over 3 years now and in the corse of leading i have seen most every kind of ppl dirt , u can imagine…allies that drop u for greedy little gold rings, officers that u raised for years turning on guild , stealing from guild, forming own guilds, removing the whole guild in fits of rage.. ppl joining and paying lip service for what u can do for them …during my stay as a guild leader i have made many so called friends most end up screwing u some how or another for trinkets…and i have made many enmies because i stick to a strict guide line for my guild , my guild will never be the top guild on the server we may never see the elmental planes but i will sleep knowing my guild still has morals and interguity and that we have earned everything we have gotten with out compewrmising decant moral values perhaps if more ppl thought as i did and as the autor of this post does the real world woundt be such a lousy place…

be safe….

zeffner 65 epic sk

Knights Of Consuming Fury

a namelss server guild

A wonderful post! I have been an officer in a guild, as well as an advisor. Our guild is ‘family’ based and has also seen many new faces as we grow stronger. We have allied ourselves with other guilds in the past. Some of them have been lead by pushy, self righteous megolomanics. Some of those guilds had a few members that acted the same way (like father, like son). However, all of these guilds often lost good players because of control issues. As a ‘family'’ style guild, we have endured our growing pains to be sure. We have had members come and go, but the core group of about 30 players has stayed consistent. Even when their higher level characters go off to ‘uber’ in greener pastures, they leave behind an alt. that they play often. So, like like, the family of a guild changes, and like a family, if you have good parents to set examples for you, you don’t screw each other over or transfer blame for internal guild issues to other guilds. You stand there and look inside and change, hopefully, for the better.

Hug your guild tonight.

Awesome post Danny!

Reading this I can agree that the most important part of the game is the social aspects.

I have been in 3 guilds during the years I have played EQ and in one, I was an officer who was put in a terrible position. The guildleader was stealing from the guild bank, harassing people both in and out of game, lying, making paranoid delusional accusations, etc to friends, some of who left the server over his mania. In the end after calling him on it I was forced to guildremove all the members and myself. In the end 2/3 of the guild left, my friends were happier and now his massive hate is directed at me to accuse of stealing accounts, eating babies, raping teenage sheep, etc. This looney even still goes to sites like this, posts lies, then links them on other guild websites to troll.

Second I have been a part time player in the guild Danny above is in. Its a social guild and the people are great. Never a complaint about playing with them but I had to leave for a while to prevent them being harassed by a certain looney.

Third guild houses my main and main alt and is a typical raid guild. We raid nightly, have a good time, joke, etc and I have made friends there that like my friends from years ago I expect to still be playing with years from now, even if its not on EQ.

In the end, be true to your friends, thats what this game is about. Help people in trouble. Sometimes the right choice is not the easiest, and when I did what I knew I had to do I was amazed the next few weeks at the thank yous I recieved when I expected curses. Leaving Knights of consuming Fury is the best thing a player can do for themselves.

Naginataka, the hot pink bard

Nameless server

Vote for me as worst player EVER!

http://www.worstofeq.com

Zeffesque slander (libel really, since its typed)is encouraged!

What a great read ! I play on TT also, and have witnessed many of the behaviors you have described. I am currently in my 3rd guild, and so far, things have never been better. We have a family atmosphere, and we raid when we can. We have recently aquired quite a few lvl 65 people, who have grown tired of the “uber” guilds and their strict policies, just looking for friendly people to play the game with.

Being quite ignorant of the bad side of human nature, I was sickened by the greed involved with EQ, but have made enough good friends that I still continue to play. We work on things because they are fun, and to better the guild. I think it’s possible to have a happy medium, if the goals are to have fun and remember it’s just a game.

My 2 coppers worth,

Cassaerie
65 Warrior

HI!

This is a great post, thank you so much. I waited til I was 50 to join a guild, because I had a group of friends I met in game and we had been hunting together since the low 20s. We didn’t really need a guild til 50, as we could handle everywhere we wanted to fight. But as 50 got nearer we realized we had to choose, and we decided on a guild one of our other friends had joined.

It was a raiding guild with a family atmosphere but soon after we joined the raid leader left and the several raids a week died out to mostly weekend raiding. This was still fine with me, I play for fun and was still spending 90% of my time with my same friends, and hunting the big scary stuff on the weekends. My alt was in her 30s still, and joined a very nice family guild run by my husband, but who’s highest member was only in the mid to upper 30s.

After a year or so, I ended up an officer in both guilds. The smaller family guild had grown and leveled, and now had many of it’s core memebers in the 50’s and above. It had found that everytime a bunch of people got to a level ending in 0, ie 50 60, the guild would lose the best raiders to some raiding guild. This was heartbreaking, as we were a family, and we hate seeing our brothers and sisters go away. This time was hard on me, for I was trying to be an officer for 2 different types of guilds and was doing my best to help both whenever possible.

The raiding/family guild was also having growing pains, but of a slightly different kind. Everytime we got a raid leader who started pushing us to new and better zones, something would happen and they would leave us, and we would flounder around, trying to get direction again. We tried the raid points system, but it did more damage than good, and soon fell in disuse. Our guild leaders had to re-locate across country and were not on for a couple months and the guild lost direction. Most of the friends from my initial group left to find another guild at this time, though a couple did come back for a while before leaving for good.

We still had a core group of people who had been in the guild for a couple years, and who, like me, felt a loyalty to this guild we worked so hard to keep together. Over this last Christmas vacation, my husband and I paid a visit in RL to the guild leaders of my raiding guild, and had a great time talking out the problems with running a guild over drinks and dinner. We had already formed an alliance between the 2 guilds, and were raiding together whenever we could.

A little over a month later, my guild leaders called a meeting to announce they were thinking of merging the 2 guilds and wanted to know what everyone thought. We wouldn’t keep either name, but part of both names would be in the new guild name, to show that it was a merger, not a takeover/absorption. I was very pleasantly surprised by the support this idea was given, for the new guild would still be a family guild with no mandatory raids and no level restrictions. My husband was named the new guild leader, and we kept the officers from both guilds as officers in the new one, unless they said they wanted to be just a member.

After a couple of weeks, the new guild was created and now, 2 months later, we are over 200 strong and still growing strong. We’ve had a few people try to join us who didn’t understand our outlook, but most were /guildremoved in a day or so of joining. We are slowly feeling our way through the higher zones and the zones we hadn’t hunted before. We are still holding guild activities for all levels, and many of the people with upper end characters are finding new interest and challenge in the game playing their lower alts with their guildees. We have started taking out some of the zone bosses that were too high for the family guild, but skipped over in the higher/raiding guild. The fun and family feeling are still here, and we are moving to those higher zones we always wanted to see.

All I can say is that I’m happy the way this turned out, and I hope most, if not all, of the new guild feels the same way I do. I still miss the friends I spent 2 years hunting with, but I see them every now and then when they have a night free from their raiding guild, and we hit LDoN. They keep me informed of the gods they kill and the loot they get, but I am much happier with the family I still have in this guild.

Proud to be an officer of True Fellowship,
Roewane, ranger of Tunare for 62 seasons (73 aa)
Terris Thule

I have been playing EQ for a few years and have seen good people and bad people in all of the servers which i have characters and play. I have been in different guilds and have at last found where I believe is my home for as long as I can or will be playing EQ.

The “family type” guild which I am now in is why I still play the game. I was at the end of playing EQ when one day I was hunting in DSP and had had enough of the people who are greedy, disrespectful, incapable of telling the truth for their own in game gain, mean and so much more. I was getting ready to just quit the group I was in and leave the game, enough really was enough.

Then this person showed up in the zone and was hunting as others were and the group I was in started harrassing her and sayin she was “KSing” (kill stealing yall know). She stood her ground and refused to be pushed out of the zone or return fire. I was impressed and stayed to watch what happened and also talk to her. I can’t remember if it was she buffing me or me buffing her or just helping but i continued talking to her for quite a while.

While talking she asked if I would like to join her guild (as I had no tag at that point on that perticular character but still did on others). She gave me their web site and said if you have a question let me know. I looked at the web site and after reading some of the info and also the way they talked on their forum I knew I would stay and play if I joined them and I did, got the invite to the guild and have been here ever since.

Besides if I ever get back to playing at a regular time I get my officership back when I find our fearless (well he aint afraid of my biting anyway) leader.

Tandari Ever’Lost, Shaman of The Tribunal, Lvl 57
Proud member and officer of True Fellowship
Terris-Thule

I have been playing EQ for almost 2 years now. I grouped with many many people who had tags already and asked me to join with them. I was only lvl 10 at the time and really didn’t know what a guild was all about. Then I saw a few people with a guild tag that was grouping togther and looked like they were having fun. after a week or so I started seeing this guild tag a lot on people and all of them were so nice to be around. I asked if I could join their guild and after a week I was in. That was my first Guild and to this day I still belong to it. I have seen many many people come and go because our guild is family type and they want bigger and better (so to speak). But I ask you, How many times can you raid a place or how much upgrades can you get for yourself? Does it ever stop? I would rather be in a family type guild and help out other people who don’t have rather than raid all the time. My Guild is like my family. Sure, I have been asked over and over again to join raiding guilds but I will never leave mine. I am happy right where I am and plan to stay there as long as guild is alive and kicking.
Fyndor Firefist Enchanter of the 65th lvl with 88 AA points
Also Proud Officer of the Guild True Fellowship

Wow, truely well spoken and very well put. I’m left utterly speechless except to perharps clap or acknowlege your perception.

Xenithos Corrupts
65 paladin of Erollisi Marr (50 aa)
cute lil half-elf of Destiny’s exodus

Related Posts

BigKid is now offering user logins for anyone who'd like to post news or make comments. Register & login now!

Feeds: 0.92 · 2.0 · Atom

Levelling